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| Another Z-Poxy Question http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1810 |
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| Author: | BruceH [ Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:00 am ] |
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I’m refinishing the top of my first guitar (after buggering the bridge glue clean-up phase ) and have a question about applying Z-Poxy. The first time I used Z-Poxy Epoxy and applied it until I had a smooth surface. Upon stripping the old finish, I think that I got the original layer of epoxy too thick. I now have the Z-Poxy finishing resin and am going to attempt to do it right. So the question is: When applying the finishing resin to the top, do you try to get a smooth, level surface, or do you just apply one thin layer to seal the wood and then level with the finish? I just applied the first coat of resin and have a mottled surface where some areas soaked in more than others. Thanks for your help. BruceH |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:27 am ] |
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Bruce: I don't have as much experience with ZPoxy as others but I do not see a need for it on the top UNLESS you are not going to seal the top before applying a water based finish. If you apply a vinyl sealer washcoat or shellac to the top you should not need Zpoxy IMHO. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:45 am ] |
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Bruce - I mix up a batch - 2 1/2 dollar size puddles, mix and then pour on the guitar, then I take a credit card and completely wipe it off - only filling the pours, after doing this several times, and sanding back after each coat to both level and see if the pours ARE filled, Ill mix a batch and dilute it 50/50 with denatured alcohol, then take a cotton cloth (old tee shirt)wad it up and wet it with the mixture, then wipe all the surfaces of your guitar that your filling. That will bring back the color where you burned through in your leveling process. I ONLY use this diluted mix on the top for color, as there is no need to (fill) the pour on a top, that is unless your using something else other than spruce, cedar or redwood for your top. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:56 am ] |
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I do pretty much like Lance does. The point is that the Zpoxy is fill not seal. I use shellac as my sealer. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:01 am ] |
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Do you guys seal with a spit coat of shellac first, then apply the zpoxy? Or do you just apply the zpoxy directly to the wood? I had a strange thing happen after applying Smith epoxy to a Aussie Blackwood back the other day. Apparently, some of the pores were open all the way through the wood. When I applied the epoxy several spots appeared on the inside of the back. I was thinking that if I had sealed it first with sanding sealer or shellac it may have prevented this from happening. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:07 am ] |
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I pore fill first because depending on the cut of shellac, the shellac very often will bridge the pores and prevent the epoxy from filling. Then later the shellac reseeds and now there is a void for the epoxy to shrink into. it may not hurt to seal the opposite side if though pores are an issue. but most like the raw wood interior. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:18 am ] |
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I dont use shellac, just the Zpoxy - From there to finishing. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:42 am ] |
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Say, while we're on this topic...Lance, thanks for the email on your Z-poxy technique...I'm using it on the 6 I have in the shop now and I can tell it's going to be the way to go...my question is though, after you put it on and spread with the credit card...how do you get it all off except for the pores...especially on the sides? I left so much on that when I sanded I felt like an auto-body man! Thanks, Larry. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:50 am ] |
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You cant remove it all - but I remove as much as I can , a stiff card works better. All im trying to do is fill the pours, Any globs or thick areas are going to be a bear to sand down, so its better get as much off when its wet as possible. I have done a lot drywall finishing - I have found its easer to put the mud on thin, using more coats, that it is to put it on thick, I use the same technique here, put it on, scrap it off, put it on scrap it off, eventually it fills and needs less sanding. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:57 am ] |
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Ok, I still have to re-fill a little on the rosewoods, so I'll try and control myself this time! Thanks! |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:01 am ] |
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Is Z-poxy an online purchase item, or has anyone found it at any of their local haunts (Woodcraft, Home Depot, craft stores, etc.)? |
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| Author: | BruceH [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:12 am ] |
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Thanks, Guys. Tim and Lance hit it on the head. I'm sealing the spruce top before applying Target 9000 waterborne finish, AND I want the color. BruceH |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:18 am ] |
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I don't think woodcraft carries z-poxy (I got mine from Tim) but they do carry system III expoxies (SB-112 etc.) |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:51 am ] |
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Thanks Brock! I have some System III, SB112. I was just wondering if the Z-poxy was better in some way that I am not aware of. |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:56 am ] |
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You are best to get up a group buy on the Zpoxy. You will need to get 6 orders as that is where the first price break. I think you need to contact Robard or Robart Industries as they are the distributor for it. Go to the auto paint store and purchase plastic applicators for applying auto body filler. They work great for large areas and sides. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:16 am ] |
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I get mine at my local RC model shop. I would never put epoxy over shellac. you can but shallac over epoxy with no problem though. |
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| Author: | BruceH [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:32 am ] |
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Dave, I used Z-poxy 30 min epoxy the first time around and have used a variety of epoxies on numerous projects, but this was the first time that I used the finishing resin. It is much thinner and is easier to apply and wipe off. Here is one place to get it: Z-Poxy BruceH |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:12 am ] |
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[QUOTE=terken] I have used shellac on the top, mainly because I love the color it gives. Z Poxy on the rest. Mike Doolin made a big deal about not putting epoxy over shellac as they would not adhere. Have you guys been able to do that OK? I kind of wanted to seal my neck with shellac and then put epoxy over that for the pores but was afraid to do it because of what Mike said. Terence Kennedy[/QUOTE] I would never put epoxy over shellac. but youn will have no issue putting shellac over epoxy |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:18 am ] |
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FWIW...The tech guy at Target ( Jeff) recommends putting shellac over epoxy prior to using their Oxford 9000 Waterbourne. I'd consider doing the same with Nitro as well. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:25 am ] |
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Thanks Bruce! That's the kind of place I was looking for. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:46 am ] |
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I do what most of the others do with one exception. Michael Doolin recomends thickening the epoxy so that it sort of rolls into the pores. I tried this once and was elated because it wasn't messy at all and the pores filled first try. Then I sanded and found that very few of the pores were actually filled. I think I bridged them all. So now I THIN with DA and, though it takes a few applications, I have been having much better luck. Someone asked about system III. It works but doesn't sand very well. Gums up the paper very quickly and you have to let it sit much longer than the finishing resin. |
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